In this episode I learn from Beatrice Domiguez, Head of People and Talent at Aviros. Founded in 2015 in Zurich, Aviros is building fleet management software in the cloud and is one of Europe’s fastest growing B2B SaaS companies.
Listen to how recruiting in the Bay Area and in Europe have subtle yet important differences such as definitions of what diversity actually means, why "Hiring managers are the keys” to an effective hiring process and why you’re only as good as the people as your recruiting for!
Hello, and welcome to our series of scaling stories, a discussion with talent leaders about their lessons building teams at some of the world's fastest growing companies. I'm excited to introduce our guest today. Bea, the head of talent, and people are aware Ross, founded in 2015. in Zurich, Avrios is building fleet management software in the Cloud, and is one of Europe's fastest growing SaaS companies. Bea a huge welcome, and thank you for joining us.
Beatrice Domiguez 0:31
Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.
Nasser Oudjidane 0:35
Thank you. And I'd love to get started with a brief introduction about you and about Avrios.
Beatrice Domiguez 0:42
Yeah. So we as you said, we are a fleet management solution. We help fleet managers out, automate and digitize all of their processes. For those who do not know what a fleet is just very much company cars. And we allow them as I said, to automate processes and understand their cost of their fleet and start making better decisions that in the end could help them save money. And I bet about about me, of course, not just about the company. My name is Bea, as you said, on the top of the call. I've been at Avrios for a bit over two years. Before working at Avrios, I was working as a freelancer, for a few companies, including IFTTT and good eggs. And prior to that I was leading the talent branding side of things, that bright role that was later acquired by Yahoo. And before that I worked for a small startup that was scope is called Zanbato. And I was there doing all of the recruiting as the kind of like sole recruiting team at Avrios has been my first time that I've worked not only in talent acquisition, but also on the people and culture area. And so I'm also responsible for HR for Avrios.
Nasser Oudjidane 2:03
Okay, and how how has the journey been so far this year recruiting in this market.
Beatrice Domiguez 2:10
As you said in this market, I think that's the key word. What we've noticed, it's that it's been really difficult to find people more specifically because of the great resignation. And I think that the especially their European market is really hot right now. So everyone is hiring. So when you're approaching people on LinkedIn, which is what we use for sourcing, we're coming upon a lower acceptance rate, or people already being happy with their employment. And so we're seeing that we have to work a lot harder to yield the same results, and especially on sales and marketing, and the dark region. And for a long time, I've been thinking okay, is it an aAvrioss problem like are we are the only ones that are struggling or other companies struggling and thankfully, through my network and speaking of other heads of talent from other companies, it seems like it's just really hot. And you notice that as well when you're hiring recruiters, you know, a markets getting very hot when recruiters are really hard to find. And right now, I think we're in that stage where recruiters are really hard to find HR people are really hard to find, companies are getting ready to grow. We are obviously not in reality, but in kind of a theory, we're trying to leave the pandemic be far behind and no longer being on hiring freezes. And you know, mass but but unlike hyper growth, and trying to get the best talent, and obviously, there's a lot of competition, lots of money. And yeah, it's been quite tough. It's a whole new world.
Nasser Oudjidane 3:47
Yeah, indeed. And you've done not only European tech hiring, but of course, you mentioned you've been hiring in San Francisco. So you've seen both sides of the coin, how how you found the differences. And this leads us into definitions of diversity and inclusion, and the initiatives that you've run, which I'd love to hear more about.
Beatrice Domiguez 4:13
Yeah, um, obviously, my European experience right now is only Avrios so I do not want to speak in in generalizations. And it's gonna be more of like the feelings that I get. And the US I definitely had more bass experience with different companies in different verticals, from business to consumer to b2b. And what I noticed is that software engineers were really hard to find, and where companies were putting a lot of their cultural efforts money efforts and initiatives was very much on the software engineering side. What I have noticed that Avrios and something that I've seen, especially when I look at HR groups, and people asking for advice is that go to market positions are a bit more difficult to find especially if you add another language. So if you're saying for Avrios, a lot of our roles are German speaking. So if you add German speaking roles, then go to market roles are really hard. So that's for me a huge difference. Because while we do have really strong pipes on the engineering side, never, you know, had that before we do struggle on the go to market side. And then one thing that I've noticed that is very different is product management. So in San Francisco, where perhaps product management was invented and perfected, and there are a lot of product people. And although it is a difficult role to find, because there's a lot of competition, there's also a lot of talent, like a huge pool of talent from you to choose from. What I've seen in Europe is the product management can be conflated with other things like product, like marketing, product ownership, and project management, like suddenly you get applications from people, and they do not do product in the way that we do product or in this kind of like, perhaps Silicon Valley way of doing product. And then when you do find people to product and that way, it is it is really challenging. So I've also come with a conclusion which you know, anyone can like debunk this, it's just kind of my own feeling that it is also difficult to find German speaking talent or, or European talent that is interested in a startup, because most people that have gone to really good universities and who are very ambitious, are also very risk adverse. So the kind of risk taking mentality that already exists in, you know, if you live in San Francisco, you want to go work for a startup, you graduate from Stanford, you want to work for a startup, and you know what working at a startup is. And it's kind of like a glamour thing. And here, it's still very much, oh, I want to go into consulting, or I want to go into banking, or I want to go into a very stable company. And so a lot of the talent would rather would rather go for a big company, and have the stability that gone go for a startup or scale up, because they don't know, I think that's shifting. And I'm starting to see more people interested in startups and starting to become again, like the markets getting hot in Europe, I'm starting to see the signs of growth there. But it's been interesting for me to get to experience both, and also a huge learning opportunity, because I think I approached things. Obviously very America centric at the beginning, because that was all I knew. And so I've learned a lot, and I've grown a lot, and I'm continuing to learn and grow and understand a bit more about the differences in the market. You also touched a bit about diversity and diversity is very different. It's highly politicized in the US. And it is much more viewed on their microscope. So having a diversity initiative is kind of like baseline of what you need to do at a company. And I did run diversity initiatives on my previous roles. But I felt like it was almost like if your company has to check these boxes, right? We need to have people of color, we need to have women, we need to have this, we need to have that. And so because it's so politicized, at times, it can almost feel dissin genuine.
Beatrice Domiguez 8:35
Because you're you're kind of like looking for like that ticking off the boxes, weirdly enough, and not with ill intent. But it can get a bit a bit like that. I feel like in Europe, you also also in the US diversity is very much seen on under the lens of color, and gender, and sexuality, and not so much on nationality. Because the assumption is everyone's American and and true, truly. So I am not, you know, what people consider like, I'm not white American, right. So I'm an immigrant, and but I am American. And so you also have a lot of diversity within that that isn't counted as diversity. But here, nationality is seen as being diverse. So we, we really wanted to make sure that we were an inclusive place, and we pulled all of our employees and we asked if they felt that Avrios was diverse. And a lot of the answers were like, Yeah, we barely have any German, barely have any Swiss people. And I found that funny because you will never hear that answer in the US. You will never hear someone say oh, we have a lot of this one nationality, right. So that's a change on what diversity is and it is not so polarized. So thankfully, we do have a very diverse company at Avrios that i'm super proud. We are at this moment 5050 in terms of gender, and what I find really specialists that is not 5050 In terms of gender, saying we don't have any women on our engineering team, we do we have engineering women in product, we have women in leadership roles. Actually, our leadership team right now is 5050, as well. So, and we are headed by a female CEO, which in tech is big numbers, and in automotive tech is even bigger numbers. So it's very, very exciting. And it's something that we want to continue working on. And we haven't done any diversity initiatives per se. I think we just have the type of culture where we are all aware of our inherent biases. And so when I have had conversations with hiring managers, that when they're having a bias that will 100%, own it to me, and they'll be like, Okay, I felt this and this about this person. And I know that I'm bringing my own experiences into it. And so what we do is we'll say, Okay, let's have another call with somebody else to check in, we're not just relying on like pedigree are relying on and we're also not relying on Oh, she's female, so we're going to hire her instead of him. Because we want everything to be merit based. And we don't want to create a culture where there could be a oh, this person only got promoted because of tokenism. So we don't want to have token diversity. So yeah, that's a long winded answer to your question.
Nasser Oudjidane 11:33
But I'd love to learn a little bit more about the proportion of let's say gender has it remained consistent, because it appears, or at least my assumption is, this has been intentional from the beginning of the company.
Beatrice Domiguez 11:48
I can only speak about when I started. So when I started, it was probably 30% female. And there was not a lot of female leadership, although we did have women in engineering. I, I do think that perhaps my own bias, got a bit to the recruiting, because I have seen that since I started, things have become a bit more equal. So perhaps not intentionally, and perhaps is a bias of mine, because I do want to champion women. But I don't think that it was never not intentional. And for example, our former CEO, when I joined, I said, Oh, I would really like to have like women initiatives. And he was like, I really want things to be merit based. And of course, initially, when he said that, I rolled my eyes, and I was like, Oh, well, this guy doesn't care. And well, I'm in Europe, so I need to get used to working this way. But what I learned was that he really believed at his core that he didn't want anyone to be promoted, or to, you know, be considered, or you're only did this because of your gender, right. And so I think that it's always been in our DNA. And it's always been a part I have seen uptick, and I have seen an increase. But you know, he, he chose his successor, and he chose a woman. And, you know, I was promoted when I was pregnant. And no one said, and I have known of other women that have been pregnant in other companies, that when they ask for a promotion or a raise, their boss said, Well, you know, let's see what happens when you come back. Because guess what, companies don't want to pay a higher rate out on maternity leave. And although that's not very nice to say, I'm probably not the legal thing to say, a lot of companies will do that. Avrios didn't do that. And I certainly don't want to do that, as well. And I'm glad to be in a position and a position where I get to influence the culture, and I get to influence these decisions, and I get to discuss them. And we have a leadership team that's open to do that. And now we have a leadership team that is balanced. So So these conversations, you know, a slight comment or a negative comment on gender, sexuality, you know, raise doesn't fly, because you have that represented in the company, and that's not, you know, it's not gonna fly, somebody won't do it. You know, there's not going to be a closed door of straight white men making decisions for the company.
Nasser Oudjidane 14:19
Can you think? Sorry, sorry to interrupt? Could you recall some of the initiatives that you've driven when since you arrived that help close that gap between the 30 and 50%? That perhaps our audience would absolutely,
Beatrice Domiguez 14:34
like? So I would say I don't think they were not initiatives in a formalized sense. I think it was all very informal. I think we, I have reached out to leaders, for example, when we have a leadership role, and I have asked, Hey, can you post this on female communities, female driven communities, I would be really interested to see some good female candidates. I have, you know. Talked So as I said, with the hiring managers around biases, like what what did you feel when you were talking about this person? Or did you think that perhaps this person wasn't right? Because you didn't feel like they were this isn't that I think we have really, I've had really honest discussions with all of our hiring managers around what traits they're looking for. Very early on, though, one thing I did do was revised our job descriptions to be more inclusive in terms of language. So we didn't want to have you need to be a rock star. We didn't want to have that language that may say that might trigger candidates to not apply. And then I think diversity kind of breeds diversity. Because nowadays, when I get to talk to candidates, and I say this story, and I talk about our female CEO, and I say, hey, and by the way, the leadership like, it's not only, you know, male, like there are women at the table talking. When I talk about my journey about being a mother and motherhood and returning back to work and still having ambitions and wanting to do that, then I can also share this story with candidates. And I think that these kind of anecdotal things resonate as well. So
Nasser Oudjidane 16:09
yeah, that's fascinating. And something that you've mentioned in the past, I'm going to bring up two quotes, one of them was that you see your role in talent as bringing good eagles to our nest. And, in addition, you've also said hiring managers are the keys. I'm fascinated by that. Could you explain a little bit more about how you think about your role and the importance of having good people around you?
Beatrice Domiguez 16:40
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think I'm also I'm quoting myself, but I, I think that you can have the best product in the world. But if you do not have people, it just it won't go anywhere, right? Like, a product is only as good as the people that are building it, marketing and selling it, promoting it, and you need the people to be successful. And so what is really exciting about being in talent acquisition being in people is that you get to directly influence those things. When you hire someone, you get to give that person an opportunity, a job, a career. And we spend more time at work than we do at home. So it is major. Right, I do think recruiters are ambassadors for companies, I do think that people function, the HR function, the recruiting function, has been historically not seen with the respect that it deserves. Because I fear that there was a misunderstanding or misalignment around who do you think brings, you know, the salespeople that sell your product and get and get you the revenue that you need? Right? It's that recruiter that perhaps you're not appreciating. And so for me, I've always felt that my role is, it is to bring good people into a company and for areas where the Eagles that's kind of like our mascot. And so and we call our offices or right now, I mean, our virtual space is the nest, our community is the nest. And so my role is to bring the right people into the nest. Because you can and I have, you know, you make hires that you see their impact culturally on the bottom line on their teams, like alleviating some of the stress that the team might have, because they really needed support. And so I think it's really important to not look at talent and HR as is very transactional function, but to see it as the core of your company and to start investing more. And I think Thankfully, this, this is shifting, you can see how much investment has increased in to talent acquisition technology, HR, technology, I mean, personeel just got a huge sort of bump. And I think you're starting to see that that is no longer this, like, Okay, you're, you're in the basement, sort of like bringing us people and whatever. And talent is also becoming more lucrative. I mean, I think agencies have always had a bit of a lucrative career, but but I do see that the respect for the function is changing, because talent people are the people building the companies that build the products that people use.
Nasser Oudjidane 19:25
Yeah. And in terms of how talent leaders, talent specialists within, within these organizations can partner with hiring managers, how have you, how have you done it, and what has worked for you?
Beatrice Domiguez 19:41
And you have to create the right report. And it is key. I think it's really, really important for talent, people to have very strong relationship with our managers. Because at the end of the day, you're hiring for that person's team. And I also know that you've heard the statistics that people don't quit companies, they quit managers. So you finding the right fit between the manager and the person that's joining is so, so, so important and so many levels for retention for satisfaction for productivity. And so you need to make sure that you're that, that the hiring managers or that the managers that you're working with trust you and trust the work that you're doing, and you refine that relationship by delivering the right people. So at the stuff to me, at first you do kind of like an education. What do you deem important? Why do you deem that important? What kind of, you know, you have to sit down with the hiring manager and fully understand them? Like, what kind of candidates are you looking for? What are some red flags? Like? What are some biases that you have to talk about diversity? What are things that you experienced in the past that perhaps now you're like, Whoa, you know, I'm realizing that I've always thought that, you know, people that come from this place or whatever, why, why Oh, because I've had bad experiences. Do you feel like these bad experiences should make it that you never hire anyone from there? Well, no, okay, then let's work on it. And it is a constant give and take, and it's a constant trust, and you have to deliver on your promises. And at the same time, ask them that they have to deliver on what they promise to you. Because it's not all the work of a recruiter or the work or talent person. It's the work of the recruiter, plus the work of the team that has to recruit, right. And if someone just tells you, hey, I need an account executive, for example, and then they won't sit down to you and tell you, this is what I'm looking for. Or they will be always busy and not give you time to put interviews in their calendar. You are not going to hire. Yeah, no matter what you do, no matter how many candidates you bring, no matter what a great LinkedIn sorcerer, you are, you're not going to hire. So it is a symbiotic relationship. And I think it's across the board with all of the leadership and in the company, right? You want new people, you want better people, you have to work with the talent team to be able to get get the right people.
Nasser Oudjidane 22:01
Yeah, And just to go into that further the following the years that you've had in recruiting, and of course, people recently, what would you say is the biggest BS advice for scaling teams? What do you think, are myths that should be put in the trash?
Beatrice Domiguez 22:19
Yeah, I always talk about this one, because it's my my least favorite thing about recruiting, it's pedigree recruiting. So the idea that a school or company has suddenly made a person, the thing.. the best. Right? So in Silicon Valley, you saw it a lot with like, oh, they come from Stanford, Stanford CS graduate, right? Not to say that that school does not have a standard of education that is extremely high. And not saying that it's not hard to get into, and that when people are able to achieve a degree from that school, they have proven themselves 100% don't want to take that away. Also don't want to say that the rigorous recruiting process from companies like Google and Facebook and their you know, how they do work, does not produce great workers. It absolutely, that's when you focus so much on only having people from the schools, whether it was because you went to that school, or you've hired people from the school and you've had experiences with that school, will limit your talent pool so much, and will blind you to possibly seeing things that are wrong with this people, and to see things that are right with candidates that don't fit that parameter. And I will say that I do think this is something that has also helped with that diversity at Avrios is that we do not look at pedigree, like that is not important. We'll look at how someone, the reason why we've decided and we design an interview process is to test people. And so we'll go through and and obviously, you know, we will not be interviewing someone who doesn't have like relatable experience, right. But if someone has relatable experience, we'll have a call, we'll get to know them. And then we'll have a process to get to filter out whether they're a good fit or a bad fit. We cannot just say, Oh, I only talk to engineers that went to this school. You know, there's they're self taught engineers that didn't go to university and they're wonderful. I didn't go to the best university in the world. And I'm tooting my own horn, but I think I'm wonderful. So you know, it's like, you have to look at that at beyond what's on on a resume for people or you'll miss out on talent or you'll miss or you'll hire people because they fit these boxes, but they don't actually fit your company. So my biggest advice would be that
Nasser Oudjidane 24:46
question about balancing the previous discussion topic, which is they'll be the report of the hiring manager and providing good candidates and not credentialing. Now, arguably one of the The easiest route is to provide people that have the right companies and the right universities. So are there any tactics that you do as a recruiter that can actually help widen the funnel, and increase quality diversity, but also ensure that you're managing the relationships in the right way?
Beatrice Domiguez 25:21
Yeah, so I, as I said, I really tried to get to understand or get into the mind of the hiring manager. So I tried to make sure I know what they're looking for. And what are those triggers? So I call him kind of like patterns and anti patterns or red flags? Or, like, what kind of people do they drive with? Like, how do those people express themselves? What kind of achievements have those people had outside of school? What does the job really entail? Like I want to understand and I think a good recruiter, and any good recruiter needs to really understand what the role is almost to the point that they could do it. I'm not I'm not an engineer, I'm not going to code. That is not what I mean. But I'm going to understand to the best of my ability, what that engineer is going to work on and do. That's not only going to make me better at selling the job, but it's also going to make me better at assessing candidates and understanding. Not doing that not falling into the pedigree trap, because I understand, huh? Alright. They say that needs someone that has, for example, you know, an intangible quality, like they need to have grit. And then you see that this one person has been working on a company for three years that the company has gone for three different restructurings. And they have managed the survival of those restructurings. And they're still there. So they're not easily shaken. You know, you see that, that throughout that in their career in that company, they've moved up at least one level, okay, they've been recognized as they've been promoted. And so you start picking up on things that are way more subtle, that have nothing to do with that person's University. And at the same time you pick up on things that perhaps are negative, how long has this person been at this company? Whoa, it seems like every time they get promoted, two months later, they go to another company, why is that they are giving an opportunity. So something is happening there. So when you stop thinking about pedigree, you can start thinking about other things, you can start thinking about other flags, positive and negative, that are more aligned with the job, but you have to understand your hiring manager, and you have to understand what the job is and what that person needs to accomplish in the next year.
Nasser Oudjidane 27:28
Yeah. I have a question with regards to another thing that you've said in the past, which is that you're only as good as the people that you're recruiting for. And I'm interested to know, recruiting doesn't happen in a silo. It doesn't happen in a vacuum, and it's a team sport. Do you have any advice for our listeners about how you can cultivate that? That ethos, those principles and that culture throughout your company?
Beatrice Domiguez 28:01
I think it's trust. I think it's showing your work, and demystifying what talent acquisition is, I tend to be very transparent with what we're working on. So I tell I pull the curtain and I show people who've The Wizard of Oz. You know, how many LinkedIn outreach do you need to send in order to get a call? That's data that you if you're a recruiter, let's say that you have it's on LinkedIn, take a screenshot, share that with the hiring manager, they'll understand how long does it take? Are you crafting emails that are just standard? Or are you going into every single profile and picking things that this people has done, and really tailoring their message to them? If you are, that's going to take you a lot longer. And if you do do that, you need to tell your hiring manager that you do that. You know, when you have a call, how long does the call take? Oh, you know, my called my calls, take 30 minutes, or sometimes they can take up to 45 minutes, then I have to put in the feedback. So maybe I'll take an hour for every call. I'm having seven to eight calls a week. There's this many days in the week, on top of that I'm sourcing, show them what you're doing for their role as much as often as you can. Because when they realize that you're working for them and what you're doing, then I don't know there's a bit more compassion, there's a bit more of understanding like it just can't be like, oh, and poof, magically, seven candidates appear like I tried to never make it. So that is poof, seven candidates appear. I was freelancing for a while, as I said, and a lot of my work was hourly. And I wanted to you know, make sure that the people that I was freelancing for understood what I was doing every minute of every hour that I was working. And so I think that practice is really important to show your work and show what you're doing because it helps build a trust. It helps people understand and then if you fuck it up, you need to I own it, and learn from that mistake, right? So you will present candidates that are not writing. And when you do make sure that you take and the feedback and that you learn and calibrate and do better next time, because that also creates stress, right? Like if I show a candidate, that's not great. And then the hiring manager like, Oh, that was really off the mark, have curiosity and be like, why? What was it? Okay, the more you tell me, the more I learn, thank you so much. Next time, I'm going to do better, and then do better next time. And eventually, you've created trust, and you don't have to worry about, you know, is this hiring manager working with me or without me? There's challenging hiring managers? I'm not saying that, you know, it's all like, there are things, there's also education you need to do on the hiring managers, are you noticing that a person, you know, you have one hiring manager, you give them 10 candidates, they reject nine, what the candidates have already gone through one, like probe through you like that can that hiring manager says needs to check a bit of fit, and they need to check that they have the right skills, maybe go a little bit deeper on those skills, but you should not be looking at a pass rate that's like that low, right? So then come to them with the data, hey, hiring manager, you talk to 10 people in the past two weeks, and you've only passed 1 am, I completely off the mark, or what's going on. And then if they have really crazy high, like, I really want a unicorn, like, give them data about the reality of the market, hey, there is 5000 People with this title, I have reached out to 1500 of them only, you know, 50 have answered to my email that they're interested, like, and then out of those 50 avatars talk to 25, you talk to 10, and you just only want to pass one, we're not gonna hire. Maybe your standards are impossible, that person doesn't exist and show them why it doesn't exist. Right? So I do think in the sense like numbers are your friends, transparency as your are your friends, and most and people are good people, people there. I'm a people person. I think talent people are our, our people, persons. And so they can use that also to their advantage. They can leverage that and good social skills to create good rapport with hiring managers, and goodwill.
Nasser Oudjidane 32:28
Absolutely. Moving into closing questions. I'd love to learn this is a little bit off topic. But considering we touched upon this in the beginning about the state of this market, yeah. How to Hire, do you think that this is going to continue? For the foreseeable future? Or do you think things are going to get any easier? Are you seeing any, anything on the ground that can give us an answer about this,
Beatrice Domiguez 33:00
it's probably going to get harder. Because we are now a global economy, whether we like it or not. And I think companies that were only recruiting on their region are no longer only gonna recruit under regions. So your competitor was located far away, it's no longer your competitor who's located far away, they're gonna enter your market, not only for talent, but also for product. So we're looking at a global talent market. And that's just the beginning, I don't think that's gonna go away. And I actually think it's gonna get easier for companies to hire globally, it's going to be easier for companies, remote processes are going to continue getting better. That's also going to change the way that funding has worked. I think a lot of VC funding was very concentrated in Silicon Valley, really concentrated there. If you wanted to create a startup, anybody would just move to San Francisco and try to build a startup there. That's no longer the case. You don't need to be there to get VC funding. Not only are American VC companies opening factions in Europe to not have the oh, we have one company in Europe thing, but like, fully create portfolios. But European VC companies are starting to realize, oh, shit, there's competition, we need to up our game. So that's only going to start increasing. So there's going to be an injection of cash into the market, which we're already seeing, there's going to be a competition for global talent. And I think that the consumption of technology, unless we have some sort of like, another weird event in my lifetime, like the pandemic where like, technology, you know, is broken, and we're no longer using our computers and we all have to talk to one another and face to face. You know, if that event doesn't happen, and I think technologies show is going to continue to increase, not the crease, and there's going to be a lot of industries that are going to want to get digitized and there's a lot of things Just as their analog, so I feel like the competition for talent is going to increase. Now, I also think that what will happen is that they there will be a massive amount of people that will get educated to tailor themselves to the, to the tech industry. So I think that there will be a lot of move on workers that perhaps are not in the tech market right now joining the tech market, and I'll say that I saw that in San Francisco because I was not a techie. And I switched to being a techie. I was actually an art historian. And I was part of the nonprofit arts community. And when I looked at a lot of people that I worked with, in nonprofit arts, I would say that maybe 50% of those people switch to tech. So that means that they were not finding jobs in arts nonprofit, and then decided to, you know, move into the tech community. You know, there's folks that I worked with that were working at, you know, multidisciplinary performance art spaces, and now they're working on Apple, they're working at Google, that's also going to happen here, right? So you'll see a shift from people working in other industries wanting to go into the tech industry, because it's lucrative. And so that will also start happening, which will increase the talent pool. So So eventually, that will even out but I think that evening, I think right now we're, we're beginning to see the the climb, so I don't think it'll even out it'll take a couple years even. And just saying as well, I think there's a lot of struggle getting talent to in the US so so I don't know if this is going to change.
Nasser Oudjidane 36:42
Yeah. Is there anything that you listen to? Or watch for inspiration that perhaps comes to your mind that our leaders, our listeners could be interested in?
Beatrice Domiguez 36:53
Gosh, I'm not now. So I have. I'm not a new mom. But I have a one year old and yeah, no, I have not been consuming a lot. I do try to you know, read TechCrunch keep myself up to date with news on like the LinkedIn feed, read articles around people, because I think that's like important. But I have not been keeping up with any I don't have any. But if if listeners or other people have interesting podcasts or things that you can listen to please send them my way because I've been terrible for the past year. But but you know, I think now that my daughter is one, I'm I am like, Okay, I think I'm starting to I'm also graduating and like the the moms fear were like the beginning was like scary and horrible. And now I'm like, Okay, I think I'm better. She's alive. She's been alive for the one years is thriving, all good. I think I got this and now I have more leeway to listen to things. So we'll see what I discover. But at the moment, nothing.
Nasser Oudjidane 37:58
Okay. What is one thought value or phrase that you live by? Last question.
Beatrice Domiguez 38:06
Yeah, don't be an asshole. period in life. And everything this applies to just don't mean to strangers, don't be an asshole. At work. Don't be an asshole with your spouse or partner. Don't be an asshole with your friends. Don't be asshole. It really gets you far in life. Weird, very simple, but gets you pretty far. Yeah, just be a good person. I mean, we can't be all the time I we obviously all have our shortcomings and failings and stuff, but I, I want to help more than I want to hurt, I want to contribute more than I want to deplete. And I think that I've seen it, you know, even in my relationship, and I'll even say with you, you know, I you would say hey, I can you help me with this? And I'll be like, sure, but I've also come to you for help, right? And I think goodwill brings briefs, goodwill, and sometimes I'm not going to be able to do exactly what a person needs, right. But I'll be able to sort of point them into the right direction. And you don't know. So I, I want to be helpful, and I want to be good. As much as I can. Because I believe that that it is life is a series of interactions and a series of given takes. And if you give you receive, it's very selfish, but you do. And I've been very, very lucky in my life to gotten mentorship and expertise and support and help from a lot of people that you know, have molded me and have helped me and have gotten me to where I am. And so I think I want to I want to keep doing that so.
Nasser Oudjidane 39:41
You can pay it forward. Yeah. Well, that's, that's a wrap air. It's been an absolute pleasure.
Beatrice Domiguez 39:47
Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's been lovely. Thank you for thinking that I have things that are worthwhile to share. And yeah, and if any of your listeners are looking for a job should check out check us out where Avrios.com shameless plug
In this episode we learn from Ruby B, who is leading technical tecruitment at Astra and is an active career coach.
We talk about how recruiting is "project management" and how he's used that to help scale Productboard's headcount from 100 in 2020 to 300 today.